Curse

Sab · Nov 02, 2007, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

Lately people posting here have been talking with Andrew Patrick on IRC in Lonesamurai's Ascension show.

The impression given was that TEAM ARENA = SUXX. It was not regarded a viable PvP format.

Hmm, if this is true, maybe they should ask for TAers' opinions before coming to that conclusion. I'm willing to bet that they don't TA and they're pretty terrible at TA in general, so they have no idea what the problems are or how to fix them.

One problem is the r-p-s aspect of TA, and this update has only made it worse. Not only do you need to take the current 4v4 meta into account (conditions, hexes, and certain gayways that are in at the moment), you now also have to figure out how you're going to split against dedicated HB builds. An HB build like spirit spam/Sin split will outmaneuver a standard balanced 4v4, while a decent 4v4 team can survive the first few spikes and pressure out the spirit spam on an annihilation map. This level of r-p-s isn't good for TA.

Somewhat linked to the problem above is that degenerate builds actually have a good chance of beating decent teams. These builds capitalize on overpowered skills, and I'm sure TAers can give some good suggestions on how to properly balance these skills with minimal impact to other formats.

Another problem is griefing builds which are designed to get one kill and survive for the rest of the match (they autowin when the timer reaches zero assuming you don't get a kill on them). While it's certainly beatable with a good coordination between your shutdown, snares and your melee, it's no fun spending 5-6 minutes trying to kill three healers with run buffs.

One last problem I'll mention is that it's simply not supported by the devs. Skill balances rarely touch on 4v4, even if the change is isolated within TA and would not affect anything else, and while TA is neglected, HB gets obs mode and a ladder...why? There is real competition in TA, top players from all formats regularly form teams in ID1. It's just a shame there's nothing in it for them other than glad points.

I'd love to hear an official word on this - what *they* think the problems in TA are, what they're trying to achieve with this change, and how well they think this change is faring.

Cass · Nov 02, 2007, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by just call me jimmy

Whoever you are that decides this crap, I hope you know you have single handedly ruined every aspect of PVP in this game. GG

Yeah, cause RA/TA is "every aspect of PvP in this game". It's only a small, scrubby section of it, admittedly closer to proper 8v8 formats than some of the other trash (AB etc), but definitely not representative.
This sort of drama queen post will only lead to your opinion being ignored by the devs.

Haven't experienced the HB maps in RA/TA myself yet, but I don't like the sound of it either. The previous update was probably worse though: the forced sitting out of pointless matches while griefing runners and tanks have a field day made at least RA pretty much unplayable.

Longasc · Nov 02, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Hmm, if this is true, maybe they should ask for TAers' opinions before coming to that conclusion. I'm willing to bet that they don't TA and they're pretty terrible at TA in general, so they have no idea what the problems are or how to fix them.
(...)
I'd love to hear an official word on this - what *they* think the problems in TA are, what they're trying to achieve with this change, and how well they think this change is faring.

There is no point in asking a non-existing TA community. Just check the TA forum! It is recruited from all kinds of players, but it still does not seem to be a popular game mode.

(Besides the fact that you just declared people you do not know nor what they said for scrubs, an attitude that is out of control on Guru...

)

They must have recognized TA as an unloved stepchild due to numbers, we could get the same results by a questionaire what pvp formats they usually play.

This change to the format is radical. This is no longer the TA as people know it, and there are serious doubts (just in this very thread) if this format is good at all (maybe it requires fixed costume brawl skillsets). For RA it just takes too long.

I did not play TA for over a year. What shall I do? When I get more people together we do not go for TA, there is GvG, AB, or the whole lot of PvE. And when you are alone, RA... but shrines or no shrines, this game mode does not get more attractive for me this way.

I liked costume brawl RA style with fixed bars, TA style with free bars and organized teams does seem to be even worse than costume brawl, which in comparison to me many people did not like at all.

glountz · Nov 02, 2007, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

There is no point in asking a non-existing TA community. Just check the TA forum! It is recruited from all kinds of players, but it still does not seem to be a popular game mode.

(Besides the fact that you just declared people you do not know nor what they said for scrubs, an attitude that is out of control on Guru...

)

They must have recognized TA as an unloved stepchild due to numbers, we could get the same results by a questionaire what pvp formats they usually play.

Seriously, could you back up your claims with real facts? You're speaking in the wind, there. TA players are numerous and gladiators like(ed) it. The worst that came for TA was the glad title, so many TAers shifted from TA to RA by synching because it was easier to farm scrubs. Now they get TA even shittier .
Even if the TA community is small (due to essentiall to ANet retarded Glad title, HB ladder, and so on) they are the first concerned by it. And know what ? They don't like this update. At all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

I did not play TA for over a year. What shall I do? When I get more people together we do not go for TA, there is GvG, AB, or the whole lot of PvE. And when you are alone, RA... but shrines or no shrines, this game mode does not get more attractive for me this way.

Ah okay I understand now, you don't have any clue. You don't play TA, so everybody in the game don't like TA. Worst, as you don't play TA, you don't care at all if it becomes gimped.

Sorry but as a casual TA'er, I'm completely ashamed by this update.

Terra Xin · Nov 02, 2007, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cass

Yeah, cause RA/TA is "every aspect of PvP in this game". It's only a small, scrubby section of it, admittedly closer to proper 8v8 formats than some of the other trash (AB etc), but definitely not representative.
This sort of drama queen post will only lead to your opinion being ignored by the devs.

Haven't experienced the HB maps in RA/TA myself yet, but I don't like the sound of it either. The previous update was probably worse though: the forced sitting out of pointless matches while griefing runners and tanks have a field day made at least RA pretty much unplayable.

That statement you quoted was his opinions based on all aspects of PvP, not just TA/RA. Even I got that one :P.

DreamRunner · Nov 02, 2007, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

There is no point in asking a non-existing TA community. Just check the TA forum!... ...I did not play TA for over a year. What shall I do? When I get more people together we do not go for TA, there is GvG, AB, or the whole lot of PvE... ...They must have recognized TA as an unloved stepchild due to numbers, we could get the same results by a questionaire what pvp formats they usually play.

You are full of fail. The TA community exists and while they are TA guilds, you just didn't know and assumed to be that its dead. How negative. But even though many top top players do TA, and a large part top PvP players enjoy it, its a problem that yourself generalize a part of the pvp community based on a made up popular vote which is you think is true.

Sab · Nov 02, 2007, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

There is no point in asking a non-existing TA community. Just check the TA forum! It is recruited from all kinds of players, but it still does not seem to be a popular game mode.

(Besides the fact that you just declared people you do not know nor what they said for scrubs, an attitude that is out of control on Guru...

)

The TA community is small compared to GvG's or HA's, but it's a community nonetheless. Since it's a small community, most of the regulars know who's who since we inevitably end up playing with or against each other. Of course there may be decent TAers I've never heard of, but so far the general consensus from all serious TAers is that this change is mindnumbingly bad for the game.

Longasc · Nov 02, 2007, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Sorry, since when is ANet the WWF and protecting small communities? They have masses to cater for, and you should be prepared that GW2 will do that more than GW1 at the moment.

Quote:

most of the regulars know who's who since we inevitably end up playing with or against each other

Does not look like it is worth to preserve a game mode where the regular players already know each other so well? I.e. not that many people in there.

All self-declared pro players, please note, I got my glads ranks in RA on my own, no need for 3 buddies hoping to bash those coming from RA into TA.

@glountz: I think I already pm'ed you, I do not like how you talk to me or other people in general. Do not dare to address me like this again.

B B · Nov 02, 2007, 12:52 PM // 12:52

This update made me cry

/ponder , this reminds me of 6v6 HA...

Sab · Nov 02, 2007, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

Sorry, since when is ANet the WWF and protecting small communities? They have masses to cater for, and you should be prepared that GW2 will do that more than GW1 at the moment.

Does not look like it is worth to preserve a game mode where the regular players already know each other so well? I.e. not that many people in there.

All self-declared pro players, please note, I got my glads ranks in RA on my own, no need for 3 buddies hoping to bash those coming from RA into TA.

The masses don't always know what's best for them. Even if people like this change, the problems I listed in my previous post will still be there. The novelty of new maps will eventually wear off, and TA will be left with the fundamental flaws it started with, plus some new ones I can already see.

If this change made TA more accessible to new players, I'd be all for it. I'd love having a larger TA community. However, this update doesn't do that. It'll ruin the game for most of the TAers I know, and for no good reason. Like I said, this update doesn't actually fix anything. New players will still get rolled by top teams and become discouraged, even more so now that the HB maps demand strong solo play and good communication, both of which new players lack.

In any case, I don't know why you're so concerned about this issue when you don't actually TA.

Big_Iron · Nov 02, 2007, 01:21 PM // 13:21

/signed

I was planning on doing some RA and TA this weekend with the double Glad points, but if they've put HB maps in there, forget it. I hate capping shrines.

Draikin · Nov 02, 2007, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

The masses don't always know what's best for them. Even if people like this change, the problems I listed in my previous post will still be there. The novelty of new maps will eventually wear off, and TA will be left with the fundamental flaws it started with, plus some new ones I can already see.

I agree, introducing those maps into TA will turn the meta game into the same imbalanced mess we have in HB currently. I honestly don't know what Anet was thinking when they released this update, especially since they're finally discussing possible changes to the HB mechanics in the first place.

Dark Luke · Nov 02, 2007, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

* Temporarily added Hero Battle maps to the Team Arena map rotation. We will be evaluating the addition of these maps over the course of the week. Additional adjustments may be made during that time period.

Notice that this HB in TA thing is temporary as this is done on an experimental basis.

Draikin · Nov 02, 2007, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Sure it's temporary but they didn't clarify why they added such imbalanced maps to TA in the first place. They already know the HB maps and objectives are simply broken so what's the point in adding them to TA?

trialist · Nov 02, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draikin

Sure it's temporary but they didn't clarify why they added such imbalanced maps to TA in the first place. They already know the HB maps and objectives are simply broken so what's the point in adding them to TA?

Probably because this is what went through their minds?

Players: Hey, you know, people don't really play HB much?
Anet: What? No waiz! Look at the number of people playing costume brawl! It rocks!
Players: Er, yeah... because its a festival event? And people wanna see what the hell it is?
Anet: Oh bollocks, people love it, its HB, what's not to love, you run around and cap shrines and stuff you know?
Players: Duh... that's what they hate, the capping... its dumb and it's imbalanced.
Anet: Oh bullshit, the players are just not exposed enough to HB, tell you what, let's add HB to RA/TA too! More capping goodness for our PVP folks! Wootness!!! They will love us for this!
Players: ................

Tyla · Nov 02, 2007, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by trialist

Anet: Oh bullshit, the players are just not exposed enough to HB, tell you what, let's add HB to RA/TA too! More capping goodness for our PVP folks! Wootness!!! They will love us for this!

thats quite surprising due to the fact they ignore fixing hero AI in hb.(and the incredibly long wait on recall)
cant anet just add NEW maps for TA/RA HA and HB?
watch recallers/dual recallers/trio recallers/quad recallers spam TA now....i can only imagine it

Longasc · Nov 02, 2007, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

The masses don't always know what's best for them. Even if people like this change, the problems I listed in my previous post will still be there. The novelty of new maps will eventually wear off, and TA will be left with the fundamental flaws it started with, plus some new ones I can already see.

So far nobody liked the change (me neither), so you can hope it ends up like HA, from 8v8 to 6v6 and back to 8v8.

You like TA, others, too, but then why do they experiment with the format of Team Arenas?

Thesis: Because not enough people play in TA.
ANet has the exact data.

Either they are experimenting for GW2 or they want to make people more interested in TA, the format better and more interesting for much more players.

I do not like TA at all. It is not GvG nor RA, and I do not like RA so much either. But I like the idea and the maps behind costume brawl.

I will play some TA today to see if it is really that bad. It does still not appeal to me, worse than RA and CB. Has RA still the TA/CB maps? That is even worse than this in TA.
I do not think it works, for reasons already mentioned and voiced by me and others in this thread.

As the OP said, HB + TA does not mix well, it stinks. But TA is already more dead than PvP in general is usually declared here on Guru (!), so it is a good thing they try to make it better. One could say a pity they did not do this one year ago, but alas they were always busily working on the next chapter.

Now they seem to try to fix things, e.g. Canthan pets growing, but not all "fixes" really make things better. The fade on distance thing or this HB/TA bastard as the latest examples.

Tyla · Nov 02, 2007, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

As the OP said, HB + TA does not mix well, it stinks. But TA is already more dead than PvP in general is usually declared here on Guru(!)

pvp is far from dead.

Issac · Nov 02, 2007, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Yeah, they take to much time. And they aren't fun :S.

Crimso · Nov 02, 2007, 03:35 PM // 15:35

I think it really should of went the other way, moving TA maps to HB that would make alot of fun to the regular(we can cap and let the morale make us win lolza ) build, I'd even go back to HB if annihilation matches were added to the mix.